Apple Pay (Wallet)

[Kyle-K]

@kyte

Colour me old… but how is this different to a debit card? Seems like both access funds directly from a bank account? Its a genuine question, I really dont know.

Correct they pretty much access funds from a bank account.

@lawrence

Apparently it’s aimed at Concession and Healthcare Card holders?

You can have one of these cards on pretty much all their bank accounts. And certain Concession and Healthcare Card holders with special accounts can also opt to get a debit card on but it depends on the account.

@lawrence

No fees, etc.

Banks don’t normally have card fees. However a merchant may choose to charge a surcharge on a transaction done on a debit card but not on an eftpos card.

Merchants normally get charged different rates per card type eftpos cards normally have a very tiny fee or none at all. And merchants don’t normally have a surcharge.

@FaultyTaco

At a guess, I’d say it’s a difference between the ‘middle-person’

Correct not to mention,

@FaultyTaco

a transaction on a debit card gets processed by the relevant credit card provider eg Visa/MasterCard

That bank would have to share a part of the interchange fee with that organisation and the merchant would have to pay a higher processing fee.

@FaultyTaco

whereas a transaction on an eftpos only card is handled by the eftpos organisation, and probably with lower fees charged against the bank for doing so.

Correct they normally charge a lower fee and take a smaller portion of the interchange fee. Not to mention most of the big banks own a portion of eftpos each.

[kyte]

So, based on the info here, it exists for the benefit of the bank, not necessarily the customer. At the customer end, theres no apparent difference.

[FaultyTaco]

@kyte

At the customer end, theres no apparent difference.

The addition of eftpos cards to Apple Pay means it’s now available to basically any ANZ card holder(I’m sure there’s exceptions, don’t @ me), and I’d expect to see this spread to other institutions sooner rather than later. It’s a good move for everyone.

[kyte]

Certainly seems like it. I was very surprised that eftpos only cards even exist now. I thought they would have gone the way of the dodo.

[Acelon1]

@kyte

I was very surprised that eftpos only cards even exist now. I thought they would have gone the way of the dodo.

Why? I Personally having the ability to use Apple Pay with my current EFTPOS card would be appealing to me and would be the only way I would consider using Apple Pay.

I have no desire at all to make my Credit Card easier to use as that only encourages spending in a way that makes the already greedy banks more money.

[Kyle-K]

@kyte

So, based on the info here, it exists for the benefit of the bank, not necessarily the customer. At the customer end, theres no apparent difference.

Apart from funds clearing immediately, if you use a eftpos card, I’m not aware of anything that stands out.

@FaultyTaco

The addition of eftpos cards to Apple Pay means it’s now available to basically any ANZ card holder (I’m sure there’s exceptions, don’t @ me)

Yeah pretty much all there customers would now have access to a card that is Apple Pay capable. However you do need to have one of the new chip and contactless eftpos cards from them.

Then maybe others but I’m only aware of one account that doesn’t have a card attached and that’s one of their savings account.

@FaultyTaco

and I’d expect to see this spread to other institutions sooner rather than later. It’s a good move for everyone.

At this stage there’s only five banks that are using the new chip and contactless eftpos cards that I’m aware of.

ANZ Was First, followed by NAB and then followed by RAMS I believe and then Commonwealth Bank there’s only three of the big banks and two smaller banks/credit unions I can’t remember who the fifth one is.

They’d have to switch to these cards first before they could support Apple Pay however there is nothing stopping them doing that in one sweep I guess.

@kyte

Certainly seems like it. I was very surprised that eftpos only cards even exist now. I thought they would have gone the way of the dodo.

They have with some of the smaller institutions and credit unions. I wouldn’t think there’s many banking institutions that support Apple Pay that actually still issue or have on offer eftpos cards.

Most of them are debit credit cards with most debit cards in the last few years have been issued as multi-scheme with support for chip and contactless eftpos. Check the back of your card for the eftpos and contactless logos which should be next to each other.

However I should add while this has been added to debit cards I’m not aware of any institution using those features yet from what I understand it’s already to go however it’s just waiting to be turned on.

[kyte]

Well… good for you. I use a debit card, which to my mind is no more or less useful than an eftpos card. But, ya know… whatever floats yer boat. BTW I was NOT saying theres anything wrong with eftpos cards… Just in case thats what you were thinking there.

[kyte]

This is why I was asking what the difference is. I used my Visa Debit card on my previous bank (building society) as if it were an eftpos card. As far as I was concerned, I was using my own money, it wasnt credit, and I never treated it as such. Likewise now with Macquarie master card, its a debit card, and I’m only using my own money. I withdraw at point of sale if I want to (usually I dont, though) and can withdraw cash at autotellers if I want to, and I use it to pay for stuff at stores of various kinds. So I guess I am thinking the main difference is in fees.

[edit] immediately cleared funds… yes that could be a difference if thats what happens. Mastercard and Visa still go through that pending process. Macquarie is pretty quick though, certainly in terms of notifying spends. I’ve been really chuffed to get notified right away when a spend is done. Makes it easy to see if someone else is at your stuff. Mind you Commbank is quick about notifying spends which dont look like you. I think security wise they have all improved out of sight over the past few years.

[Acelon1]

Fair call, I’ve never considered Debit Cards as an option as I’m not sure how they would fit in to the way I currently bank - but I guess if I got one as a “spending money” card and used it that way with Apple Pay it might get me more interested in the idea. I’m just not sure if ANZ here is NZ offer the facility to use them with Apple Pay.

** Edit - Looks like they are available, maybe I’ll give it a go at some stage - but it will mean I have to open an ANZ bank account. Until I actually looked at how the VISA Debit card works I misunderstood and I stand extremely corrected on how it works I didn’t realise it was actually more or less a standard EFTPOS type card - I thought you had to put money on it to spend!

/me hangs his head in shame…

[Kyle-K]

@kyte

So I guess I am thinking the main difference is in fees.

Correct I discussed that above.

@kyte

[edit] immediately cleared funds… yes that could be a difference if thats what happens.

That’s definitely how it works.

@kyte

Mastercard and Visa still go through that pending process.

Correct.

@kyte

Macquarie is pretty quick though, certainly in terms of notifying spends. I’ve been really chuffed to get notified right away when a spend is done. Makes it easy to see if someone else is at your stuff. Mind you Commbank is quick about notifying spends which dont look like you. I think security wise they have all improved out of sight over the past few years.

I love the new update to the Macquarie app, they recently added more fine tuned Notification options.

@Acelon1

Fair call, I’ve never considered Debit Cards as an option as I’m not sure how they would fit in to the way I currently bank - but I guess if I got one as a “spending money” card and used it that way with Apple Pay it might get me more interested in the idea (and control my impulse spending!)

A Debit card is similar to a EFTPOS Card, While it uses Visa or MasterCard unlike a credit card you can’t spend money you don’t have in your account.

@Acelon1

I’m just not sure if ANZ here is NZ offer the facility to use them with Apple Pay.

In New Zealand there is currently only one provider that offers Apple Pay and that ANZ and it’s only on debit and credit cards will be no EFTPOS support.

There should be a second one by the end of the year BNZ have announced and the New Zealand press has said by the end of the month however they haven’t given any fixed date other than by the end of the year.

BNZ’s Apple Pay page on their website.

Remember, While New Zealand and Australia share the name eftpos. They are completely different Unfortunately I’m not aware of New Zealand’s version of EFTPOS having any digital wallet strategy announced. eftpos Australia have had a digital wallet strategy planned for quite awhile now.

And I wouldn’t be expecting anything coming soon New Zealand’s version of EFTPOS.

@Acelon1

** Edit - Looks like they are available, maybe I’ll give it a go at some stage - but it will mean I have to open an ANZ bank account. Until I actually looked at how the VISA Debit card works I misunderstood and I stand extremely corrected on how it works I didn’t realise it was actually more or less a standard EFTPOS type card - I thought you had to put money on it to spend!

Yes sounds like you definitely were confused. It works pretty much like a New Zealand EFTPOS Card except it access is your funds over the Visa or MasterCard network and you only normally have access to the funds in your bank account the one the cards attached to.

The way you were thinking at work is more like a prepaid credit card or debit card. Which also exist.

[Acelon1]

Thanks for the clarification and understanding of my misunderstanding!

We don’t currently bank with ANZ or BNZ but the next time our mortgage comes up for renewal perhaps I may look at moving banks… depending on fees, interest rates, the phase of the moon and my feelings at the time

[tom]

The other difference historically with EFTPOS cards was the ability to set the cheque button and the savings button to come from different accounts but I think very few people did that. Some banks have both cheque and savings buttons set up by default, some just use one of them. If your debit card has the EFTPOS logo on the back as well as the Visa/Mastercard one, then pressing Cheque/Savings will make the transaction flow through the EFTPOS system (typically cheaper for the retailer, and allows for cash out), and pressing credit will make the transaction flow through the Visa/Mastercard clearing system (typically doesn’t allow for cash out).

Contactless transactions on debit cards with both EFTPOS and Visa/Mastercard use the Visa/Mastercard system.

It seems now EFTPOS is allowing banks to release Chip & Pin / Contactless EFTPOS only cards… which can then translate into Apple Pay. No mention of whether it will allow cash out.

[Kyle-K]

@tom

It seems now EFTPOS is allowing banks to release Chip & Pin / Contactless EFTPOS only cards… which can then translate into Apple Pay.

Correct and unfortunately there’s only a handful of banks issuing these cards three of the majors and to credit unions as far as we are aware.

There is a proposal going around to have a hard exit date where all eftpos cards need to be contactless and Chip & Pin I believe currently the proposed date is 2022.

@tom

No mention of whether it will allow cash out.

The physical cards do allow you to get cash out using contactless, However a member on Whirlpool

Be.au he runs the Tap Down Under Website and Twitter Account. Asked a engineer on Twitter that works for ANZ and he has specified cash out will not work over Apple Pay on ANZ’s access card.

Tap Down Under (TapDownUnder)

Steve Price (stevepriceau)

But they’re still debating on whirlpool of this is actually going to be the case. And we’re really just waiting for someone to test it.

[Kyle-K]

For the New Zealand Visitors BNZ launch support for Apple Pay today.

Apple Pay. Your new, easy way to pay

[mrjesseross]

I added my new ANZ platinum card to my watch over the weekend. It’s pretty amazing how simple the whole process is. I also like that it somehow bypasses the $100 PIN requirement cap.

The main issue is figuring out which stores’ card readers will accept Apple Pay. For example, do those Commbank Albert devices accept it, seeing as Commbank themselves don’t offer the service?

[bennyling]

@mrjesseross

I also like that it somehow bypasses the $100 PIN requirement cap.

I’ve heard that this is entirely dependent on card issuer. I’ve only heard of one other issuer (apart from ANZ) that doesn’t require a PIN when attempting a transaction over $100, and that’s ING.

[Kyle-K]

@mrjesseross

The main issue is figuring out which stores’ card readers will accept Apple Pay.

There’s only two things you need to worry about does the terminal support Contactless Payments and if it will accept your card scheme e.g Visa or MasterCard.

@mrjesseross

For example, do those Commbank Albert devices accept it, seeing as Commbank themselves don’t offer the service?

To answer the question yes those Commbank Albert terminals do except Apple Pay, Apple Pay does not require the terminal Operator to do anything special to add Apple Pay support.

And when using another banks terminal for example Albert it doesn’t matter if Commbank Support Apple Pay or not. All that means is their customers can’t use Apple Pay with cards issued by them.

You can even use Apple Pay in a country that doesn’t have Apple Pay, Acceptance of Apple Pay is worldwide provided the terminal in country supports Contactless Payments and the card scheme.

Apples rollout of Apple Pay only concerns card support with banking institutions not acceptance.

@mrjesseross

I also like that it somehow bypasses the $100 PIN requirement cap.

This is where the operator of the terminal needs to implement something, this is referred to as CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method.

Essentially what it means is that allows the terminal to except the fingerprint instead of a PIN for transactions over $100.

If the terminal doesn’t support this feature Apple Pay will still work but you will be required to enter your PIN as normal.

@bennyling

I’ve heard that this is entirely dependent on card issuer.

Yes that is correct, however the merchant does need to also support the feature on the terminal. On the merchant side this is becoming less and less of an issue here in Australia anyway.

@bennyling

I’ve only heard of one other issuer (apart from ANZ) that doesn’t require a PIN when attempting a transaction over $100, and that’s ING.

Actually there several, ING doesn’t fully support that feature for all customers yet apparently they’re choosing to stage rollout the feature to their customers according to their email.

Regardless Tony is working tirelessly to get the list updated. Me a couple of others are helping him but regarding this feature a lot of it will have to be displayed is unknown.

Unfortunately for this feature would probably have to rely on user feedback and submissions, I’m working on it with him at the moment to move it to a website. But where only in the early stages with this. will probably do some kinda google contact form to tie things over in the meantime.

[soulman]

I have to enter a PIN when I go over $100 with my ANZ Platinum card via ApplePay.

[Dan]

Just for those that don’t know yet, Woolworths Rewards has officially launched on Apple Pay. I added it today and tried it out, works great. Also, when you add it to your iPhone, it’s added to your watch automatically. You can add it to your iPhone by scanning it or by logging into your Woolworths Rewards account on their website and there’s a link to add it there.

[frankie]

@Dan

Woolworths Rewards has officially launched on Apple Pay.

I gotta tell you this has been really useful for me. I always forgot my rewards card. And a bonus is that I can keep somebody else’s Woolie’s card in Wallet too (not set to automatically select) so our household can take advantage of specific offers.

With this and my own stuff from PassKit, Wallet is finally turning into something useful for me and my actual wallet is nice and slim.