Can Apple learn something from HP?

Mac
#1

Got my new work laptop. HP Dragonfly. Wow!

Specs (16GB, 1TB, i7, 4k, 13" 2 in 1), but a couple of things stood out about this:

  • Size and weight - This thing is lighter than a Macbook Air (2.5 pounds vs 2.8 pounds) and that’s the heavier version with the longer life battery, they have a 2.2 pound (sub 1kg version)
  • 4K screen, 550 nit, brighter than the air, higher res
  • 30% Battery life than the a
  • Keyboard has decent travel unlike the scissor crap - its not as good as Lenovo but very close
  • Built in LTE
  • built-in finger print reader, IR facial recognition etc.
  • ports ports ports - hdmi, 2 x usb-c/thunderbolt, USB-A and they did it without it looking crap

There is a host of other crap they include like spill proof keyboard. The charger is tiny.

And it actually looks incredible. Normally PC’s look like a bricklayer designed them but this is beautiful.

So what is the relevance? Its probably not a popular question.

There is one thing that stands out about this: They created a machine that is smaller, lighter, has better specs, better battery life that looks good AND they hard drive and battery is still user replaceable.

They didn’t actually have to compromise on that. Which raises the question. Is Apple creating thinner machines that are non-user upgradeable because they aren’t technologically possible for the size? Or because they don’t want to.

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#2

This. Apple seems to be determined to get as many dollars out of people as it can. There’s a rumour now that the iPhone 12 wont be supplied with a charger…

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#3

Some Apple users like to think that the non-replacable battery & memory design choices made by Apple were engineering driven.

I’ve always beleived that they were marketing and profit driven and the fact that HP and other companies can produce machines in a similar form factor (with a spill proof keyboard!) simply goes to show Apple chose to make the machines non-user upgradable, not that they had no other choice.

And yes I’ve been annoyed about it since my last user upgradable MacBook Pro was retired.

I’ve still got iPhones and iPads and my SO and daughter have a Macbook and a Macbook Air but Apple no longer have a laptop product that suits my needs :frowning:

#4

I have worked on some ASUS and Lenovo laptops lately that allow easy replacement of batteries, storage and memory. The engineering is easily equal to Apple. I am not sure the longevity will be the same, but it may well be.

I still stick with Apple due to the ecosystem they have created. My devices work so well together. Each device is easy to setup, use and update. Many of the apps available are a real joy to use. They devices, operating systems and apps are generally well supported for long periods.

However, all is not perfect. My top three concerns with Apple are:
Price
Ease of upgrading
Battery life and battery replacement

My top concern with PCs is Windows. It is just a mess. I do delight in being able to dig down and find six ways of doing something, almost anything. But that evaporates quickly when I have to help others and try to explain the endless technical complications and difficulty of use. It is also rapidly blown away when new updates take forever to install with one or more restarts. So much more support is needed for PCs compared to Macs.

Then there is Linux. It was already great for many home users years ago. I think many have not adopted it for fear of missing out on apps or capabilities that they don’t need and that were probably feature bloated anyway ( Hang your heads in shame Adobe & Microsoft)

I suspect that we are almost at that time when many home users can confidentially do all their tasks on an iPad. (Maybe we have been there for years.)

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#5

I agree. My life has been “parent support free” since I introduced my mum to an ipad. The only time I’ve had an issue is when she ran out of space.

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#6

Ports? BLASPHEMY!

I mean, add in a couple… or even one… USB A port, a HDMI port and an SD card reader along with a few USB C ports and FaceID and you’d have a machine that wasn’t so much of a joke. Keep the high prices (and build quality), keep the non upgradeable parts… Essentially what you had in the old 2015 MacBook Pro 15" and I think they would be (back) onto a winner. It’s not like those machines had any issues (related to the extra ports anyway)… the minimalist design hurts users.

I’d love to see a comparrison, for the same price and specs, who would opt for the current machine with only USB C ports vs the same guts put into a 2015 version??

For interest, the odl 2015 15" MBP:
Measuring 14.13 x 9.73 x 0.71 inches and weighing 4.49 pounds,

The new 16"
Height: 1.62 cm (0.64 inch)
Width: 35.79 cm (14.09 inches)
Depth: 24.59 cm (9.68 inches)
Weight: 2.0 kg (4.3 pounds)

So the new machine is fractionally smaller and lighter… but at what cost? I’d trade it all for more battery anyway. Magsafe vs USB C? Again Magsafe every day of the week.

I would even accept the 13" didn’t get more ports but only the higher priced (and specced) 16" got the extras which would likely drive people into higher priced options…

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#7

Based on the HP, I don’t think it has to be a compromise on size to keep the ports.

Agree in the MagSafe. I’m looking at MagSafe to USB adapters but I can’t find any that have actually been delivered and have positive reviews.

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#8

Apple will never do it because its against their “vision” for what computing should be.

My ideal machine has Magsafe, 2 USB-C, 1 HDMI, 1 USBA, SD card reader, plus a non glued battery, socketed ram and SSD. will NEVER happen.

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#9

My ideal machine isn’t that different…

I can live without Magsafe and the SD card reader (I’d take them but not essential to me) but I need 4 USB ports (2 of each would be ok) plus of course user replaceable battery, RAM and SSD.

(and no I don’t want a USB hub, powered hubs require 240 volts and non powered hubs don’t work with what I use).

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#10

It still runs Windows though.

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#11

Every year though the compromises one must make to stay with MacOS gets greater…

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#12

Well yeah… my ideal machine would be all that and running OS X.

Which left me to decide which I can do without the easiest, the hardware or the software.

And Apple continued to make design choices that removed more and more hardware design features that I need and/or want until it reached a tipping point.

#13

I think the popularity of Apple’s different laptop varieties came down to their build quality a lot. Going back ten years ago, the build and design of most Apple laptops was miles ahead of most of the Windows based laptops that were often crappy plastic monstrosities. The PC industry has learnt from this though and in the last 5 years, many manufactures have upped their game in regard to design and build quality. Not to mention specifically targeting weak points in Apple’s lineup such as connectivity and upgradability.

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#14

Imagine if Apple rethought their laptop offering with types:

  1. Pro laptops: More ports, upgradable RAM and storage, replaceable battery, MagSafe
  2. Consumer laptops: just like now. Sealed, glued battery, USB-C, USB-A

It would help differentiate the two types, justify at least some of the price difference and better suit the target users/markets. It would be a little like the difference between the iMac and Mac Pro (, but thankfully, the pro laptops would not need the wheels, or that monitor and stand).

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