HFC NBN - Any Experience?


#41

Then the polite option is simply not to say anything.


#42

OK then, figure me this. In a country the size of Australia what logical conclusion can you come up with that would make sense in terms of a market proposal for the case of using copper lines in the vast majority of this country that have a problem delivering a gigbit connection over more than 100metres?

I await your compelling tender, the Prime Minister could use it right now.


#43

I cannot because I do not believe such a case exists and to say that it does exist is I believe incorrect <-- polite way of saying this.

go and cry in to your latte that you can’t afford to buy on a Sunday because plebs don’t deserve a pay rise <-- rude way of saying this.


#44

Please excuse the inflammatory remarks but this whole situation is a cluster bomb to begin with and when an immoral victory is won that plays on the lack of sensibilities about IT of the average person in this country its more than a little bit frustrating.


#45

Totally understand the frustration, I think we all feel it to an extent. From my interpretation of the other posts in this thread, I think that all that’s being asked is that passion and frustration isn’t expressed in a way that can be perceived as aggressive.


#46

Dollars, orestes. Dollars. There is a cost/benefit to any public policy decision, reduced as a priority in the modern politician in that it is Other Peoples’ Money they are playing with.

At the individual level, people do a CBA with their own money, which is why most people on the NBN are buying the lower speed tiers like 12 and 25 Mbps. It is all the speed they require for their purposes and budget. I am staying with my old cable plan as long as I can (18 months apparently) because it fits my needs a bit better than the NBN.

The NBN in any version was never going to put FTTP in the majority of country towns, let alone rural areas. This is why the Conroy NBN bought the satellite Skymuster. Conroy and Rudd just avoided talking about it, and distracted by making some high profile exceptions like Birdsville and Windorah. To call this claim ‘lies’ does not reflect well on you and your knowledge of the NBN and its various iterations.

I’m sorry if you don’t like the truth but it is what it is. Any sensible engineer would have gone with a full fibre optic backbone in a country the size of Australia with the last mile being whatever takes your fancy

Yes that would be the best policy. Pretty close to what Rudd took to the 2007 election at a predicted cost of $4b. When Conroy and he realised Optus and Telstra weren’t going to play ball and planned to compete with their own fibre optics, the NBN was born on the back of Conroy’s napkin in the guvvie jet. The NBN thus tries to do a lot more than a fibre optic backbone, with copious, boondoggle quantities of OPM.

As for my voting intentions, despite it not being your business, I don’t vote tribal, have always voted below the line for individual people, not parties in the Senate. I never understand why people are content to let the scum in political parties direct their preferences. Since I started voting in 1980 I have voted ALP more often than LPA, and did not vote LPA or ALP last election. In fact , my preference would be to not vote for any of the current mob in parliament and the average Poli sci graduate, they aren’t worth the wage they have awarded themselves.


#47

The policy was that country towns of more than 1000 population would get FTTP which would have covered most of what people would call ‘towns’ rather than villages or localities but Victoria has higher population density than other states.

I know that where I live (Maldon in Victoria with a population of 1250) was slated to get FTTP and now we’re getting FTTN (from November this year).


#48

BTW Aussiebroadband have been nothing but perfect and troublefree since I moved from Telstra cable to their NBN via the same cable. If anyone is planning on joining them PM me and we can both get free months as well. I’d recommend them highly without that, but thats worth doing too. They have a promo with double data for 6mths as well.


#49

Qld has a quite high rural and regional density too, and a lot of towns under a thousand. You could have the NBN fibre backbone running up the main street but because the step down hardware wouldn’t get installed there they would have to rely on satellite/3G once the copper was to be killed off.


#50

I will bear it in mind, woofy, thanks. I will stay on pigpond as long as possible as I would rather the 115Mbps down and pathetic upload, rather than a higher upload and small 15mbps download penalty. I just don’t upload that much and anyway photos and vids are sent to iCloud from iOS devices often on LTE. Also at least with Telstra NBN the price is much of a muchness.


#51

Today I received a letter “to the householder” from TPG advising that the NBN was arriving in December (Highton, VIC), and then trying to talk me into one of their NBN plans… which really aren’t impressive compared to their child-company’s plan I am currently on - ie iiNet Cable $80/month unlimited, with speeds around 70mbps download and 40mbps upload. To get the same looking at TPG’s flyer, I would have to pay $100/month, or settle for 10-20mbps connection speeds for a lower fee…

This concerned me, as I was worried this may mean that the Cable option may be coming to an end… but a call to iiNet confirmed that the plan will be active beyond my current contract’s expiry mid next year. Phew!

I do know that Optus are offering unlimited cable in my area (now) for less, so I expect I’ll review the situation when iiNet’s contract comes up… but at least cable will continue to be an option!


#52

Cosmic, If you are on 70 Mbps download and 40 Mbps upload it would suggest you are already on a 100/40 NBN plan, especially if you are on iiNet coax. Non NBN coax might be a 100/2.5 plan.
Are you sure those are your speeds?


#53

NBN is not officially in my area - my connection is “cable” internet. My concern was whether the official NBN’s arrival may over-ride my cable offering…


#54

Well, yeah, eventually, but you don’t have to do it immediately. I am in the same boat, but bigpond does 115 down, 2.5 up. Most of the time. NBN equivalent with telstra is 100/40 for about the same price.


#55

Sounds like you like reading right wing tech blogs like Delimeter or whatever it is. There’s no reality in any of this, and in the end if you want to use the dollars argument come back to me in 10 years where we have to rip up the existing copper groundwork because 24mbit isn’t fast enough for the average quadruple play IP networking which will become common place.

Usual flawed right wing logic vs. common sense. As per above any “town” with more than 1000 people would have been on the Labor NBN with whatever chosen last mile tech that would have been implemented.

Nothing wrong with a run of copper for 100metres if it saves you a few dollars and connection nonsense in ripping out peoples existing copper but using copper doesn’t make sense for various reasons. Not the least of which is that it will never reach any significant speed over long lines.

I would have fully also supported fibre to the curb if it were implemented as a cost saving measure but saving money now with fibre to the node now only to spend it later is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

There is the other issue. Now what happens with an elderly person who needs a phone line for emergency services and there’s a blackout? Fibre is self powered you would have never had this issue in the first place. Same goes for back to base security.

I can imagine home robberies going up every time there is a black out because of the NBN now also. It wont take the crooks too long to catch on to that security flaw that when there is a blackout on the Liberal NBN all your security systems go out also.


#56

really Orestes? accusations of my possible political orientation instead of rational cost benefit? Whatever you reckon mate. Completely wrong as you are of course. I am more old Labor before the party got destroyed by the dregs of the middle class. Meanwhile, just get me all that internet speed at others’ expense!

And the NBN in a natural disaster context is a problem, particularly in areas with prolonged power outages, such as cyclone country. Especially for those little old ladies who would never check the status of the battery at the box.


#57

Well the argument is the same argument delimeter was spouting in 2013, you tell me what I’m supposed to think about that. “Everything will be ok… Just get used to the fact of street corner cabinets every 500metres” You know these environmental hazards that you city slickers aren’t aware of invading every man and dog’s front lawn. Meanwhile if we had of used central GPONs (on ramps) and line splitters connected to fibre none of these things would have been nescessary. You would place a GPON every 20-50kms or so rather than a street corner cabinet every 500metres for maximum theoretical speeds.

As I predicted everything is not OK and now we have a whole bunch of green ugly battery powered boxes on every man and dogs street corner in regional and remote areas to account for doing things half assed. You know sometimes when I’m bored and on my way to doing something more important I start trying to count how many of these street corner cabinets there actually are in my area off the top of my head, or trying to locate them so I can work out what the theoretical maximum speed I would actually get would be if I paid for it.

No such issues would have occured if we went with fibre to the post or fibre to the curb anyway because fibre inherently is self powered. Those remote communities would have always had 4G/Satelite you may be right about that, but show me a community that anyone cares about outside of remote aboriginal communities that has the need for anything more than that and I’ll give you a free token prize.

It was always the Abbott/Turnbull thing that turned the NBN into what it is now. I don’t care so much for waiting for the real thing, in fact most Labor voters didn’t care either. The vast majority of the Labor voters in 2013 or so were pro FTTP. My memory is just as fresh as was it was back then about it.

There are still just as many significant roll out issues with Turncoat’s copper NBN anyway. It’s 2017 now and I’d say the NBN in a proper regional centre here with 350 thousand people from one end of the coast to the other only just got fully patched into the NBN in 2017. Many are still waiting.

So no its not any quicker of a solution either, even in large regional centres, in majority population states such as Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria. Its just slower, and eventually when everyone jumps on quad play with their iPhone hooked into iCloud, their TV over the same phone cable, their internet, and their smart automation all piled in to watch their kids over their IP cameras and turn on their home security/lighting/whatever 25mbit will not be nearly enough.

I could get a gig, if there were a green ugly box on my door step but I’m not holding my breath. I’ll still be dealing with line length issues in 2027 also, and by that time internet enabled things will require even more bandwidth.

You see, we haven’t saved time, we haven’t saved costs, and Malcolm Turncoat should be the top nominee for this years Shonky award.


#58

Wouldn’t it be cool if FTTP supported higher speeds? For the future and stuff? Oh wait it does.

The funny thing about the new model is it doesn’t save money because the money that was going towards construction has now moved to maintenance, because the copper is needing to be replaced to fix on-going issues and now the maintenance budget has to be increased to continue to fix lame duck infrstucture. Good bye savings. If it was done right in the first place in every scenario the costs would now actually be going down.

I can’t believe this is even an argument.


#59

There are many reasons Lord Wentworth deserves this year’s and next year’s shonky awards. In fact I think in perpetuity as I doubt anyone could ever compete. The low energy entitled one has turned out exactly as I thought he would.
The NBN is just one of the reasons for his award. Does not change the fact that conroy’s brain fart has cost future generations billions of dollars.
And yes, those ugly nodes will one day be white elephants.
As for your “anyone outside aboriginal communities” statement, FFS. Way to diss the communities that pay for city lifestyles, including the NBN. It’s royalties that so far has stopped this country turning into veneztralia.


#60

I think I just realised that you think I must support the current version of he NBN and thus must be a liberal supporter, it must be the only reason you keep claiming this. Let’s be clear: the current version of the NBN sucks. Turnbull is a dilletante.
It is the entire concept of the NBN, in the order of priorities for government to be doing things, that is a bad idea, borrowed money, off the federal budget books, bullshit about eventual commercialisation and sale, bypassing of proper Cabinet processes, the list goes on. A classic example of bad policy making.
Rudd’s original proposal he took to the election was much more modest and sensible, but he discovered there was a few issues that meant he wouldn’t make the original timetable, so to distract he went for the king hit knowing a lot of people would be focussed on the shiny. It’s Other Peoples’ Money after all.