Let's talk about price

Apple’s pricing has been a test since at least 1990 when I purchased my first - and second hand - Mac. Apple’s pricing has always, always been an issue, compared with other products in the market that are almost always a lot cheaper.

Absolutely, Apple has been known for making better quality products (most of the time). At this point however, with the iPhone as the stand-out beacon for what’s wrong with Apple pricing - they’ve gone too far. Even if you adjust the historic iPhone prices for inflation, there’s a huge leap over the past few years, and whilst part of that was due to the increase in screen size, ultimately the price point has gone over a lot of people’s budgets.

This should have been foreseen. (And I’m guessing it was, by some poor sucker/s that are now in the position of being able say to Tim - “I told you so”. Cos that’d be great for their career… :slight_smile: )

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We used to be able to buy lower spec to get in, and upgrade ourselves over time. Now everything they make is like an appliance, no upgrades, no longevity.

I got my first Mac in 2006 and it was a Mac Mini. I got it because it was cheap. Now you pay $1200 for it and can’t do jack squat with its internals. It’s no longer entry level material.

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I think people have been spoiled by “new better & faster tech every year, for the same money or less!” of the last 15 years… but miss the part where the world economy changes, and the AUD changes. Take @frankie’s Mac mini example. In 2006 a Mac mini cost $600 USD and now it costs $800 USD. $600 USD in 2006 money is worth WAAAAAY more than $800 USD in 2019 money!

Houses cost 4 times what they did 10 years ago in some cases. Computers & Phones may have doubled. So you’re still saving 50%. :man_shrugging:

That said, the ‘low’ end of the spectrum has managed to keep the price even lower than Apple, by selling data. The recent coverage of “post purchase monetisation” being a whole “thing” for the TV industry angers and scares me. TVs that report what is displayed on them back to head office to be sold to prop up an unviable retail price for the TV. And don’t even get me started on Android phones that send everything to China (you know they exist!). Or the fact that we have 10 times the data allocation on our 4G plans these days, but still use it all just to download damn .js files for ad networks to track our every browser click. :rage:

The other big takeaway for me (and I’ve been saying this to anyone that will listen for 2 year actually!) is that the iteration speed of the smartphone market has peaked. The iPhone 6S is still a totally viable phone, and it’s 3 years old. Every phone before that really was worth upgrading to yearly.

I have LOTS of clients using computers that are 3-8 years old that are not worth replacing until they die. Without this becoming a support and repair rant (hah) since SSDs, there really isn’t anything that makes users want to update their computers, and retrofitting an SSD is often better than buying a new Mac! I think the same is true now for phones. My personal phone is a 7+ and see no reason whatsoever to replace it at this stage and I think that’s the new normal.

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According to the inflation calculator I just used, $600 (US) in 2006 is worth $747 (US) in todays money.

So yes, the price hasn’t increased that much for the Mac mini in that time, but then again why has it increased at all? Yes the technology is better, but that is the nature of technology. It gets better and then the price drops again.

Higher pricing = higher margins meaning they can sell less and still make more money.

I judge it by the measure of what iPhones used to cost. I won’t even look at Australian costs, but in the US

iPhone 6 (September 2014) - $649
iPhone 6S (September 2015) - $649
iPhone 7 (September 2016) - $649
iPhone 8 (September 2017) - $699
iPhone X (September 2017) - $999
iPhone XR (September 2018) - $749
iPhone XS (October 2018) - $999

Apple used to offer their base model of their flagship phone in ‘standard size’ for $649 US, but apparently can’t anymore. I kind of got it with the iPhone X - kind of next year’s technology this year. But why did the iPhone 8 cost $50 more than the iPhone 7? And why didn’t the Xs cost the same as the X when a year on a lot of key components should have costed less? And then the Xr is now $100 more expensive than the old base flagship iPhone cost.

Inflation between 2016 (iPhone 7 at the $649 cost) and 2018 would only have boosted it to $679.

I don’t see the value in price increases when feature jumps are not that significant and when you look at only paying $50 for an iPad Pro, or buying two iPad 9.7s for the same price…

And I guess, I use my MacBook and iPad more than my phone and always have. @bennyling, I do see your point. As much as it goes against how I use technology, there are people who do everything on their phones with little need for a traditional computer or even a tablet which makes it a valuable device. I just don’t in my view let that justify arbitrary price increases.

Anyways as I said, it is just my opinion. Apple is pricing iPhones higher to be at the higher point the market can tolerate, which increases profit margins which means they can loose sales and still make more money. As someone who isn’t a stockholder, its not a path that I support.

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I use iMessage but am trying to gradually get my friends who switched to Apple to start looking at alternative messaging systems. I’ve come down to Telegram, Signal and Wire which are all cross platform. I dont use wire, it requires your email address rather than phone number. Telegram can be used like iMessage, across all your devices, with or without physical keyboards. I really like it. Signal is the most secure, Telegram is the one people seem to gravitate to though (Signal is pretty basic). I’m opposed to using either Google or FB for messages (getting people off fb messenger has become a nightmare. Gawd people are lazy!!)

If ever I get everyone to move to an alternative, I’ll be able to see my way clear to moving from Apple, but probably to linux rather than Windows. As for phone… whatever. But not Android. I do want to stay with Apple for that, and Watch, too.

No doubt Apple has problems selling the latest iPhones.
However their latest trade in deals are quite good (IMHO), try the online calculator, in store is the same price

I’ve heard of Telegram for a while so maybe it’s time to have a look at that, reality is that you have to go where the people are and lots of people have Google accounts, me included. Getting them to sign up to new things isn’t always easy as it’s just another “thing” to most. All my email is delivered through google so at this point I figure they already know everything there is to know about me. That said, the ability to send zip files via a messaging service would be very handy so I might look into Telegram a little more.

I buy my iPhones outright and use pre-paid SIMs, bouncing around whomever has the best (lowest) price per GB of data (not interested in call/sms cost). Although I can afford the latest and greatest iPhone, I don’t believe they are worth the price. I’m currently still using my iPSE64 purchased when first released as it offered the features i needed in a form factor I preferred. The new devices themselves are superb pieces of technology, but are too thin, too large, and fragile for my everyday/everywhere phone.

Now if I could only SIM pair the SE with something else . . . . .

I picked up a Surface Pro 6 today - so far so good. W10 isn’t too bad.

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Ah, I was wondering where this topic got to. Let’s talk about price. Particularly as it pertains to the Mac, even though some of you have already jumped the gun a little :slight_smile:

Back in early 2014, I picked up my current daily driver. It’s a late-2013 MacBook Pro with Retina display, with 16GB RAM and a 1TB SSD. At the time I thought the cost was pretty obscene, but seeing that I’ve gotten over five years of use out of the thing with no major issues beyond a swollen battery, and it shows no signs of stopping any time soon, I’m pretty happy with how things have turned out.

That being said, I know I’ll have to upgrade it eventually. I’ve always been a big fan of the laptop-as-desktop-replacement line of thinking, which gives you the benefits of portability with near-desktop power, even though you pay a little extra for it. That narrows my choices down to the MacBook Pro, but that’s where the problems begin.

The current MacBook Pros with Touch Bars are divisive, to say the least, although I think I sit squarely on the fence. I think the Touch Bar can be genuinely useful, and having Touch ID on a Mac is a fantastic addition. Where I’m a little wary is when it comes to the keyboard. I use a keyboard protector, so it’s not so much dust that I’m worried about. But if there’s some kind of design fault, as the speculation goes, that causes keys to stick due to the constant expansion and compression of the aluminium as the machine heats up and cools down, that’s kind of a problem.

Mac laptop hardware aside, the USB-C transition is upon us, and for now, we all live in Dongletown, CA. Using a Mac laptop as a desktop replacement has meant that I already have a Thunderbolt 2 dock so I can connect all my stuff to my Mac with one cable, so I’ve resigned myself to the fact I’ll (probably) need to buy a new dock to go with my new Mac, just like I did when I picked up my current machine. I’m not too concerned about that, either.

Which brings us to price. If I want to buy a same-spec replacement for my current Mac, I’m up for somewhere north of $4,400. If I want any more upgrades, that’s approaching wallet-cowering territory, even if it’s for a Mac laptop that I’ll comfortably get more than five years usage out of.

Even if it’s not all that much more than what I paid five years ago, it’s a lot of coin.

Which gets me thinking: why am I so drawn to buying a Mac, when I could absolutely get something that does the same job for less?

If we’re talking hardware, then it’s a no-brainer. A 1TB SSD is a 1TB SSD in a regular PC laptop, minor speed differences either way aside. Apple uses the same Intel mobile processors that every other PC manufacturer uses, and long gone are the days when Intel would give Apple chips ahead of everyone else, or go as far as to make custom processors for them. Speakers are speakers, at the end of the day, and many PC manufacturers are offering 4K, touch-compatible displays on their premium laptop models, negating many advantages Apple’s Retina display once had.

There are certainly Apple-specific drawcards to Mac hardware, at least on laptops, but how much value you place on those will depend on how much value you think the Touch Bar, Touch ID, gesture-based trackpads, and other Apple niceties add over their more commoditised PC versions.

And certainly, part of it is that Mac laptops run macOS. Windows 10 isn’t too bad, as some of you have mentioned, but I don’t feel like using it, most of the time. Sure, there’s nothing particularly wrong with Windows these days, and it’s getting better all the time. But when it comes down to it, there aren’t any features in Windows 10 that I wish macOS had, and plenty of features that are in macOS that I wish Windows had, as well as the kind of spit and polish that lets me know I’m using an OS that has had some thought go into it, rather than something that’s still hanging onto decades of legacy UI.

Sure, there are some pretty great guides out there for turning your PC laptop into a Hackintosh, and depending on which model you buy, you can get away with pretty good compatibility. But Hackintoshes still carry the same caveats they always have: risky updates, and features that flat-out refuse to work, from the simple (built-in SD card readers) to the somewhat more complex (AirDrop/Continuity, even AirPods support). If I wanted to tinker with computers all day trying to get simple stuff working, I’d use Linux.

All of this doesn’t take into account the cost of the integration between Apple devices. I love that I can AirDrop a photo from my Mac to my iPhone, or the fact that I can pick up a conversation or webpage from my iPhone on my Mac. I love the fact that I can unlock my Mac by simply wearing my Apple Watch near it, and I love how it all just works, most of the time.

At the end of the day, I feel like the best way to describe PC laptops, and Windows, to some degree, is that it’s all so utterly utilitarian. I get exposure through some pretty nice, if business/enterprise-focused laptops through work, and while they’re all perfectly fine laptops, none of them have really given me the wow factor that Apple laptops have. Sure, the carbon fibre on Dell’s XPSs look nice, but it’s taken them years to fix the awkward webcam placement. None have the kind of attention to detail that Apple are known for, or the little touches that make them a delight to use, day in, day out.

Honestly, if the keyboard wasn’t such a question mark, I might have bought a new MacBook Pro already. I remain hopeful that one day, Apple will fix the issue once and for all, and when they do, that will be my next Mac. No matter the cost.

All I’m saying is, there are other factors to consider besides price, even though that’s a large part of the “new Mac?” question for many. Because when it comes to price, when we’re talking about Macs, there’s lots to think about in terms of the value they represent to you personally, weighed against how much use you’ll get out of it before it needs to be replaced.

But what do you think? Putting aside the argument of those who no longer use computers day-to-day and are all-in on an iOS-only lifestyle, do you think Macs are currently priced fairly for the value they represent, or are you OK with paying less for a computer you use every day, even if that means a slightly different set of compromises? After all, isn’t that why we started buying Apple products in the first place?

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The dropping Aussie dollar is a major factor in making the local pricing so obscene. It often has been the case, as in reality in the past 30 years we’ve only seen parity for a brief portion of it, when the US price of a Mac was only a couple burgers less than what we were being asked to pay here. (BIG burgers admittedly) Ultimately there’s nothing we can do about this pricing factor. (The Yr12 economist in me says “buy/stockpile Aussie $$$” to increase demand, reduce supply… but Yr12 me only got 12/20 for economics…)

Apple’s attitude over the past few years with regard to pricing however is further compounding this issue for us Aussies - prices are going north even in America.

When I have made 1st hand purchases of Macs, all in all I’ve felt happy with the decisions. $1,350 for a MacBook Pro 13" in 2010? Who could fault that? But now?

We live (for the moment) in a capitalist world (til China completes their silk road), so Apple can set whatever price they wish for their products. We either buy them, or we don’t. Just because they’re sitting on billions in savings doesn’t mean they should under-charge on their products so that we can afford them. That would be silly. Meanwhile on the world-building empire of Magarathea, the time eventually arose when no one had enough money to buy a customised planet…

I went with Mac in 2003, because of long discussions with a friend in Ohio, who had switched the year before. He assured me that I would love the OS (we didn’t even talk hardware) and adapt to it from Windows XP in no time at all. He was right. I haven’t looked back.

But, its the OS that has my loyalty. I love its (mostly) stability. I love that its secure as long as I mind my Ps and Qs. And its prettier than Windows 10. My cousin is a Windows 10 user and I’ve had to do some running support for her… and although its certainly a lot better than windows 8, I still dont like it.

I could say that the hardware is way too expensive, but thats from the point of view of an age pensioner with very little cash flow. I think if I looked at it from the point ofr view of someone with a decent or reasonable income, I would be less critical. But I’ve heard about those keyboard issues and I think I would avoid until they are sorted.

In the meantime I am still happily using my Mid 2010 Macbook (White) and my late 2012 Mac Mini (both upgraded RAM and still to get round to upgrading the Mini to an SSD, Macbook already done). There isnt anything I need to do that I cant do on either machine. I’m not 100% iOS yet, and may never be (currently typing on the 12.9 Pro + Logitech keyboard I bought last year just before the new ones were released) and can’t see any good reason to update to something newer.

We use now and have for the last 3 years a mix of Apple and Windows and Android.

I have a iPhone Xr & Moto G5S+ / SWMBO has an iPhone 8+ & Vivo V11
I have a Dell Inspiron 15 gaming laptop / SWMBO has a Macbook i5
I have a iPad 2017 wifi / SWMBO has a iPad 2018 wifi

I see it as a ‘right tool for the job’ situation, before I retired I used MacBook Pro laptops on the road and Dell desktops at work and a dedicated Windows gaming desktop at home.
But downsizing means cutting the number of things I keep so 1 laptop to do it all. And Apple just doesn’t do gaming well. SWMBO who doesn’t game and isn’t a power user happily uses a MacBook OTOH.

Just buy what works for you that’s in your budget and don’t overthink it I reckon.

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Nah, you are one of the lucky few who can just buy the Thunderbolt 3 → 2 adapter! :tada:

The primary reason I didn’t buy a Mac, taking price out of the equation.