Linux And Hope For The "Obsolete" Mac

Update to this, this is GNOME 3 running on Linux Mint on my MacBook Pro 2015 15", which is pretty resource intensive, but I am going to try to see if I can get it built on the MacBook White. But honestly, I feel like this is where I am going forward. Back to PC, but death before windows.

Mojave has been mo problems, and I’m kind of done with it. Given the cat and mouse of keeping the 3,1 combined with the projected cost of the new modular Mac Pro, I’m probably done with post 2015 Apple Hardware.

I have accepted that I am no longer part of Apple’s target market. A pensioner with no other income is not who they want to sell to. I’ve accepted that my current hardware is all I will ever have unless I go second hand.

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I’ve accepted that even as a reasonably well paid person I don’t want to pay the excessive price Apple want for hardware that at best will have a 3-4 year life and then have to be replaced as nothing in it can be replaced.

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Not sure if it’s a viable option, as the site doesn’t offer any info without asking for a quote… but for what it’s worth:

http://www.macrent.com.au

Not affiliated in any way… was looking for a different company that I think no longer exists…

:thinking:

Depending on their conditions etc, it’s probably not economical. I know Radio Rentals for example is generally considered a bad idea unless you really have no other option…

Yes, obsolete Mac is my Mac, too.

I have dabbled with Linux a few times in recent years (on PC hardware). I have worked quire a lot with open source software, though the usability of OSX, hardware and ecosystem has kept me. Like may others, the cons of increasing cost and inability to repair/upgrade components are getting close to outweighing the pros.

Last time was with Ubuntu (as a PC, and for web servers), followed by ElementaryOS. I have had issues with drivers, etc, and the UI/usability just being a little lacking.

Another struggle I have had is finding good PC hardware (laptops). Maybe I’ll follow @kionon’s lead and look for a discarded few years old pre-loved/unsupported MacBook or similar to tinker with.

I’ve been back and happily rocking the 2009 Mac Pro since I had some issues with my AMD cards in the trashcan I’d replaced it with (no shock to anyone with Mac Pro experience sadly!).

It’s running Mojave, 8 Xeon cores @ 3.46Ghz, 32GB RAM, GTX680, Samsung 970 Pro NVMe boot SSD + 4 spinners for storage… this thing is faster than the Trashcan and still going strong in the 10th year after it was built thanks to being upgradeable. My 3 displays were built in 2007 (2) & 2008 (1).

We can only hope a modular Mac Pro in the future is as upgradeable! Long live the “Obsolete” Mac Pro! :heart_eyes:

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Last screenshots I took were of the 2015 MBP. I have now managed to put the same modifications to Gnome 3 on the 2008 MBW. Slack is being dumb and won’t run now, but I may need the newest version, but everything else runs just fine. But pushing the system this hard with everything enabled in Gnome 3 is definitely leading to lots of heat and periods of jet engine fan spinning. I’ve switched to Vivaldi for browser of choice. It is faster than Firefox or Chromium.

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I didn’t want to start a new thread, so I will just post my current experiments with linux on my first built PC in 15 years or so. This time, insread of using Gnome 3, I am using XFCE. It has a slightly better global menu, but it has less eye candy, including the lack of a launcher/slingshot/slingscold. I’m also using a dark mode theme to match the actual PC build itself, which is based on the character of Himemiya Anthy of Revolutionary Girl Utena rather than a macOS clone.

Given the number of parts I had lying around and the parts I was given, I’m about US $200 in on this build. And I think it’s proving Linux is becoming a very viable alternative to Windows and macOS. System 76 is a good example of hardware/software company getting close to this goal. I purchased the case (which included the fans), the CPU cooler fan, the nice cabling, and the SSD. However, the motherboard, CPU, RAM, and power supply were all free, and the GTX 660 is the old one that was in my Mac Pro.

I was able to install Steam and run some games like Counter Strike: Global Offensive on high settings at 1080p. The training course could run at 4K. Not bad for free hardware and gaming on Linux. I haven’t tested video editing (my actual use case), but I’ll be doing that fairly soon.

Apple shouldn’t be scared. They may lose customers like some of us due to pricing, but their pricing will more than make up for it. But Microsoft should be very worried indeed, because if set up competently initially, it looks like linux, especially distros like Pop OS or Linux Mint (what I use) which are fairly user friendly, can easily do everything Windows does, and it seems largely like MS’s other products like Office 365 are mainly what is keeping Windows relevant.

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I especially like the addition of that green air filter. :wink:

In all seriousness though, as noted, the way Apple is going, maybe I’ll have to put my nerd back on and look seriously into these alternative options. I haven’t dabbled since trying BeOS on the TAM in 1990-something.

I have several plants in my apartment, largely for exactly that reason.

I’ll find a shot I did of the entire desk area again. While I am looking…

Here’s some night shots:

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I have now got putting Linux Mint and skinning it on any computer to approximate the look and feel of macOS down to a science. And specifically a design for Pre-Retina MacBooks.

Currently, Linux Mint doesn’t have the 150% HiDPI scaling necessary for Retina, but the Linux Mint team has announced that this will come in Linux Mint 20. You can still dosdude1 the late 2009s, 2010s, and up, but for the 2007-2008s (or similarly stunted iMacs/Mac Minis), this is not even a question. You CAN put Linux on 2006 32bit Core Duo and it can do basic tasks but… It’s a bit painful, and many standard apps are only 64bit.

A couple of hardware notes:

  • Broadcom WiFi cards basically don’t work. They appear and have issues staying connected or they don’t appear at all. The Atheros cards work perfectly. So if you lose the vendor lottery, you’ll need to get an Atheros card.

  • Webcam doesn’t work. But in 2020, you wouldn’t want it to, it’s of such poor quality. You will need an external. Microphone DOES work now, but again, is of such low-quality, I would use the one connected to the webcam.

  • Fans/Temps can get loud and hot if you are really pushing this machine by running several apps and have a billion Chromium tabs open, etc, but… Honestly, it’s not that bad.

  • Trackpad is more useful in Linux than it is in old OSX versions. Some multi-touch gestures work, including tap for left click and two finger tap for right click and two finger scroll. Which is super cool.

On the Software side:

Does everything just work? Pretty much, yeah on any system which is 64-bit.

  • Does it media? VLC/MPV/etc.
  • Does it teleconference? Skype, Zoom, WebEx, Discord, Slack, Teams in a browser (or a wrapper).
  • Does it office task? LibreOffice and others, Office 365 in a browser (or a wrapper).

  • Does it create? Gimp, KdeNLive, Olive, Da Vinci Resolve, Audacity, and on and on…
  • Does it browse the modern web? Chromium, Firefox, Vivaldi, etc.
  • Does it support iOS Devices? To a degree. It depends largely on if in 2020, you need access to iTunes. If you don’t, not really missing much. However, of course, you won’t have any of the features you likely didn’t have in Lion anyway, so… But the file manager does now work with iPhone documents.
  • Does it support Android Devices? Yes.
  • Does it email? Yes. In my view Mailspring is the most Apple Mail like. It’s what I use.

Honestly, if you could do it on a still generally recent but not the newest macOS, you can probably do it on Linux. There are many options or distributions, but I think Linux Mint offers the best combination of user friendly and openness for customisation.

Of course, there is no reason why you have to make the theme like macOS, but if you want it to match your hardware (and like I recently discussed with @bennyling), I feel like the goal here is to show just how effective this Apple hardware can still be, then I suggest going with the McMojave Mojave-dark theme with Capitaine Cursors and McMojave icons. I chose round, but you can choose more traditional ones. I then add Docky because it’s the best dock, in my opinion. I prefer side, but by default it is on the bottom.

Also make sure to swap out your Menu Icon for the Apple Logo, set your panel to the top, it should be 22 pixels high, and install xfce4-appmenu from Software Manager so that when you add it to the top panel, you have the global menu. If you set the panel to intelligent hide, it will hide on full screen and can be reached by moving the cursor to the top of the screen just like in macOS. Note: not all apps will behave with the global menu. It is up to the developer to include it. Many apps won’t have any menu at all (and don’t need one) and some will have it in the app window, like on Windows. And a few apps will ignore the theme.

You’ll note that with a lack of full gestures some stuff you’ve gotten used to on newer Macs are, of course, not present. For switching workplaces I add workplaces to my panel (top bar) and I assign a shortcut, usually command (Super R) + arrow. Command (Super L) is already mapped to menu, which you can treat like Launchpad. It looks like Windows, but honestly operates just like how I use Launchpad–I start typing the app I want and once I see it, I just press enter and it launches.

…and that’s pretty much it.

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I managed to get Mint 19 onto the Macbook but in the end was less than impressed with the current crop of available photography management apps (I really do not like darktable, digikam or rawtherapee) and so I am back on High Sierra. Oh a positive note, I started from scratch and it all feels lovely and clean.

The installer I created with BalenaEtcher went swimmingly, and I didnt notice any hardware failures at all. But then, I dont do much on it anyway, its mostly photography. No video or other creative stuff. Wifi worked just fine. But it turns out I am not yet ready for it.

So, I always hate starting new threads if all I am going to do is post stuff I own or give updates, so while I wanted to do a post on my current crop of Apple Laptops in various states of repair, I decided to add it here.

From newest to oldest:

  1. 2015 15" MacBook Pro Retina purchased from @jaysee a couple of years ago.

This MacBook Pro has been a champ, but even though it has largely been kept in a protective case, it is beginning to pick up small scratches and dings (or edge wear), because it has been my primary work machine. Prior to Corona madness, this meant shoved in a bag and taken to work with me every day on a 90 minute train commute. And my propensity for having nails (discussed at length elsewhere) has essentially destroyed more letters. They’ll need to be replaced. At some point I should consider opening up the back and clearing out any dust.

  1. 2011 13" MacBook Pro Unibody:

!

Before the pandemic hit, I had helped a client choose a 2012 MacBook Pro. He wanted the “same but better” and had a limited budget. Some years back, I had upgraded his 2011 to max ram, SSD, etc, etc. The 2011 has a badly wobbly screen, some missing rubber edging around the screen at the webcam, had been ENCRUSTED in cracker dust from the client’s child, a scratched up bottom plate and no feet. I sourced a pretty much mint base model 2012 for around $400. Thing hardly looked touched. Swapped in the upgrades from the 2011, updated to Catalina, copied over his user profile, apps, and files, and backed up a clone image on the 500GB spinner drive and taught the client to boot it as an external drive, just in case. I just got an update from the client: no news was good news. Hasn’t been a single issue with the 2012. It looks, feels, runs exactly as the client remembers, and my “service warranty” has been entirely unneeded. Did it cost the client more than purchasing a newer device? Absolutely, but as many of you well know, there is a value in “this is the same, but better” that many clients want. And the 2012 is still a rock star when it comes to these clients. At least until Apple drops support for them, but that was part of the conversation we had, and the client agreed. I got the keep the stripped 2011.

So what’s the plan for the 2011? Well, after a thorough cleaning, it’s actually in really good shape, as fair as refurbishments go. I had the minimum 4GBs RAM lying around and I put in an old 60GB SSD with a ready to go Linux installation on it. It’s smooth as butter on this hardware (as it was previously in a 2008 MBW). These will probably be replaced with better, newer stuff, but not immediately. I’m not going to bother replacing the bottom cover, I’m just going to get a case for it. Though I do plan to put on new feet. I’m eventually going to tackle the issue of the wobbly screen, and see if there is anything to be done about the missing rubber edging bit. Got some temporary stuff in there now, but it’s not great. The battery is at 54% and it should be replaced, but this actually a lower priority unless I choose to sell it. The intended use case is to replace my 2015 as my work computer. I have one of those superdrive delete kits which add an extra drive that I bought way back for my 2010 and was moved to my 2012 a lifetime ago. I’m thinking one will be Windows 10 and one will be macOS so I can better protect the 2015 for home use. I feel as though the 2015 hasn’t aged at all, and I still feel like it could have five or 10 more years of life as a primary device.

Oh, and the speakers suck. But I can’t really detect any problems. They’re not broken, they’re just… Really poor. Surprising to me, because I think they’re significantly and noticeably worse than the following two devices–but I can’t figure out why. They don’t sound damaged. Just… cheap. If I didn’t know the full history of this device, I’d wonder if they’d been replaced with third party knockoffs.

  1. 2010 13" MacBook White Unibody

This one is done. Technically the mostly working base device was purchased for my labor union, but I never asked for reimbursement, so legally, it is my property. It has Mojave on it, but it could easily go up to Catalina. I installed 8GBs of RAM and a 250GB Samsung 850 Evo SSD. I am leaving in the SuperDrive. Its combination of legacy and current ports (with a handful of adapters) make it ideal for the union’s macOS needs. Which are mainly my needs, as the IT director and the Apple person. I maintain the other officers’ HP Windows PCs in the office and our various Microsoft/Office 365 stuff we are all using for remote work (Sharepoint, one drive, license deployment, etc). When located in the union office, the 2010 connects to 30" Apple Cinema Display, standard wired Apple keyboard, and wired Apple optical mouse. It usually lives with me, but any member of the union may request its use by letting me know.

  1. 2008 13" MacBook White

This one is done, I hope. If I can point to any device that prepared me for pursuing a second career in IT, this computer would be it. Its current iteration is something of a Ship of Theseus. I bought my 2008 MacBook White for $1000 not too long after it came out in the Yodobashi Camera in Umeda, Osaka Japan. It was neither my first Apple used, nor with it my first Apple owned (Apple II-e and Mac Mini G4, respectively), and arguably it wasn’t even my first intel Mac (I hackintoshed a barebones ShuttlePC to run Snow Leopard), but its purchase cemented my love of both form and function of Apple products. It’s also the first Japanese keyboard I had, and now, 12 years later, I can’t type using anything else.

It wasn’t in a great shape as of a few years ago. I had purchased a second one and combined it with parts from the original to create a travel MacBook that I took with me on a five week trip to Europe. Unfortunately, by the end, it had deteriorated noticeably. Some ports ended up flaky, and the case became more yellowed and cracked. I ended up spending about another $90 to purchase another mostly working MacBook White that in combination with parts from my original MacBook White and the deteriorating Macbook White, created a nearly mint 2008 MacBook White. You can read those final steps or the entire saga here: New, Old Project: MacBook Oreo! - #44 by kionon

I have all the original box, documents, apple stickers, etc that came with my original. I also have a spare Apple optical mouse, and I have to say I’m really proud of myself. Not only is this device still beautiful to me today, but with my successful Linux experiments, it still feels wholistic and modern and actually can be used that way. My only complaint is the display. It’s too dark for 2020. The resolution isn’t really an issue. I genuinely wish it was swappable. The 2011 and 2010 both have non-Retina displays, but as they are 13", I don’t mind or really notice. They are both bright, and the 2010 is matte, which I prefer anyway. Still, the 2008 MacBook White is a machine I would feel comfortable handing to a guest that wanted to use a computer in my home and not receiving any complaints about it.

  1. 2006 13" MacBook Black

Sadly, this one needs a lot of repairs, or may need to be Ship of Theseus’ed itself and… I just haven’t found any sources of MacBook Blacks, or at least none with the same internals. It’s currently not even together. I could return it to a semi-functional state and make it “look” pretty–but it is effectively not useful. And even if it had all of its functions returned, it is 32bit, and Linux Mint 20 won’t even have 32bit support, and most of the Apps I used on the Macbook White to make it a genuine competitor to macOS or Windows won’t support 32bit. This is truly obsolete tech in as far as its intended purpose. This is a now a curiosity, a museum piece. Unless I wanted to run it as some kind of minimal server. But it’s not a MacBook in 2020. Not anymore.

  1. 1999 iBook Clamshell

From what I can tell, fully functional, but harddrive is dead. Harddrive is IDE and hard to get to. Best to replace HDD with some kind of compact flash memory to IDE or something. I’ve seen some people do that. Belongs to a union local that has existed since the 90s but recently joined our parent union. As IT director, I inherited it, but the local doesn’t care what I do with it. Definitely a museum piece in 2020. People sometimes comment on it when they visit, but it doesn’t serve any other purpose.

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A short preview video (no voiceover) of the 2008 MacBook White to teach myself KDEnLive on Linux (re: conversation with @jaysee):

I should of posted over on here - someone could of had it. Oh well.

At this point, I’ve got this down to a science. I’m going to be writing up a guide for all of the packages I’ve used for this. I do need to do some more tweaking of the various key controls, but I now feel comfortable setting up Linux Mint XFCE with a MacOS interface and workflow on computers incompatile/too slow for dosdude1’s patchers. SSD and even 2GBs of RAM produces a fully usable experience on 2007s-2012s.

It has everything that I mentioned before and Japanese input ability, though I need to map it to the Japanese/English key on the keyboard. One big visual difference seems to be that only applications that have/need menus have menus. In MacOS everything produces a menu in the top bar, but here only apps that needs them do, with a few exceptions. Some like Firefox have that ability and somehow lost it from Linux Mint 19.3 to 20, but it doesn’t matter, because how often do you actually use it? I realised I never do. Files (the File Manager) and several other gnome pieces of software have button settings menus and no longer have tradition “file edit view” style menus, so those won’t exist. But like Firefox, you wouldn’t be using them anyway. It’s very similar to iOS/Android anyway, and I think a lot of MacOS (especially now in Big Sur, which I have beta tested and cannot stand) apps are going that way too.

All in all, I’ve decided to fully make the switch from MacOS to Linux after Catalina goes kaput. I’ll continue to use Apple hardware as long as it is supported by Linux and on Intel, but I think I’m totally out of Apple with the move to ARM. I’m not going to purchase any new Apple hardware because I want to upgrade and repair. So I’ll end up no doubt with aiming to use older MacBooks until they can’t keep up even for my needs, which I have to say, doesn’t seem to be any time soon.

I imagine in like 2025 or 2030 purchasing something very much like this, which feels like a modern MacBook Black. I don’t think it comes in a Japanese keyboard layout yet though, and I’d prefer something closer to the Mac keyboard layout at that.

But until then, I can save a lot of Macs from the dump or the recycling bin this way. Less e-waste, more useful Macs, everyone wins.

I’m with you… it occurred to me just a few days ago, that I no longer need a mac to deal with my phone and ipad, so why not linux. I too like XFCE but havent explored a lot, just enough to know that the latest linux Rawtherapee is excellent and Shotwell is perfect for photo management (wel, for my purposes anyway)… add Gimp and its all good. My 2010 is about to have a do-over. I do quite like the Thunar file manager though.

Amazing - do share how you’ve done this so others can benefit from your experience and wisdom!

I don’t know how @kionon does it, but I use an app called Balena Etcher. Works a treat. Maybe Kionon told me about it originally, I cant remember. But it does work. Also works to install to an external drive instead but grub leaves a mess in the bootloader.

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Well, I’ve done it… sacrificed the 2010 Macbook to Linux Mint 20 XFCE. Bit disappointed that Docky no longer seems to be part of the standard repository. I like Shotwell. It behaves a lot like iPhoto used to. I’m importing everything from the external drives and its being kind enough to dump duplicates, and to put everything in its correct place by month and year. RAWTherapee will do for edits for now

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