The Rise of Trump


I don’t disagree with what you’ve said but I will point out that the Canberra class aren’t just an aircraft carrier without (fixed) wing aircraft. They’ve had significant internal re-design from the original spanish design which has not only removed fix wing capability but has also substantially increased the ability to launch amphibious forces.

Our Canberra class can carry twice the amount of troops and vehicles that the spanish fixed wing capable spanish carrier can manage. Making it able to carry as many troops and vehicles as the much larger US amphibious ships.

Assuming (a big assumpution I know) that the Canberra class will operate as a support carrier then one can make a case that it would rely on the carrier group it is attached to for air support in high risk situations and in medium risk situations a Hobart class air warfare destroyer and an Anzac class frigate will be sufficient.

This of course assumes that our naval needs will align with the US during high risk conflicts… but then that’s the way that the Australian navy have worked for a LONG time.

There is also the argument that carrying a dozen F35 planes isn’t going to make any difference if the ships get involved in a high risk conflict because other countries carriers and land based air forces would simply out number them.


Massive protests happening at JFK Airport as people arriving from the newly outlawed countries are denied entry…


If we’re going to change tack from local self defense to having some sort of blue water capability and the ability to self deploy some level of close air support is useful. The other problem is the capability gap that we have now with switching from the F-111 to the F-35.

The F-111 is a plane that could fly to Indonesia from our forward facing air force bases which America is now occupying and back and do some interdiction then go on its merry way. Unfortunately a lot of things happen in 50 years and the F-111 is no longer able to do what it did without close air support.

Let me use the recent conflict between a similar capability level SU-24 Fencer and what happened when Turkish F-16 block D plane flew into Turkish airspace and shot the thing to pieces! We must keep some currency.

This is where the KC-30A tankers come into play I guess, however having a tanker on your front lines and planes that are about as thirsty as your average V8 super car is not good. I guess that’s also where the buddy refueling prospect comes from. They can drink from each other.

An aircraft carrier of any sort, and this is the largest one that Australia has ever ordered requires some sort of indigenous close air support. Well, we might say we have some very good capability with the F-35. What the media says about the cost overruns and what have you aside. Once it’s operational it’s going to be a very good plane, but where my thinking is that you can’t just sail a big ship into the middle of the deep blue yonder with everyone blissfully unaware of what it is your doing. But that also ties in to buying new submarines and air warfare destroyers and frigates.

They have had a significant capability alteration though you are right, and much like any other conflict in recent history except the Solomon Islans and East Timor we generally fit into a larger picture which is sort of like a mechano set and that is where the AUSCANNZUKUS agreement comes in and where training excercises and joint capability operations such as the deployment of US soldiers in the northern parts of Australia comes to the fore.

There is the argument that an F-35 carrier group won’t make a difference in the long run, but it’s not really about that. As any other medium sized nation has to deal with, lets say Israel or whatever by comparison. It’s about giving the other party involved a black eye and something to think about until more help can be gathered with hands on deck.

We’re living in a time where it is getting more and more expensive to defend ourselves. The last case where we had to defend ourselves by ourselves is World War II. In which American soldiers were hopelessly under-prepared for New Guinea. Unfortunately we no longer possess the brute strength or the financial capability to lift our own weight so it remains that we must be good bed fellows with our traditional allies and when the brown stuff hits the metal thing you had better hope that America responds in turn as we did on September 11.


Tim Cook has emailed his employees to advise that Trump’s Immigration Executive Order is “Not a Policy We Support”.

(It has affected some Apple employees, which is potentially why he’s essentially made this public comment - even though it’s not public of course, but via internal email - he would have had to know that it would leak out.)

Cook must be sweating it though, because if Trump does as he was suggesting, and attempt to force US companies to use local labour instead of China/etc, then their production costs will skyrocket - whether they continue in Asia/etc or move to American production.

And Trump’s war on Mexico - gotta love the Mexican President kindly pointing out that if Mexican imports are taxed to try recoup the cost of the Wall, a) it only hurts Americans, and b) it will push up prices for everything from avocados to flat screen tvs… :slight_smile:

As to Australia’s military… has anything really changed since WWII’s plans to write-off the top half of the country? I mean, if it came to an actual invasion of our land, how could we ever defend a 4,000km front?


The Brisbane line was a real thing, and why the MacArthur Chamber is sitting where it is today, it’s the front line of what was that conflict. The fear of an invasion has been a real thing in Australian history dating back to the first settlement. There was a fear that the French in Vanuatu (formerely the New Hebrides) would decide they wanted a piece of Australia for themselves and so Australia could have turned out completely different than it did today. There was the so called “yellow perril” and the Bolshevik Crisis which led to the secret census on which immigrants were what, including many people of Greek-Australian background as like myself because they didn’t know which side Greece would enter the war on.

The general consensus seems to be in Australia that we can draw parallels with our other near neighbours in great expansive countries such as China, the sea and the land terrain makes it pretty difficult to forsee how another nation would get here and do much anything other than take one of the major cities for themselves for a while. With the Japanese it was Darwin. But what you would do even if you could capture a city like Darwin is a little hard to fathom. We have a fairly natural defense in Queensland its called the 12 gauge line. Our train lines still don’t meet up either with South Australia, the Northern Territory or New South Wales. So its hard to fathom logistically how you would coordinate a large scale transport of the necessary logistics to actually move outside of where you began from.

You can still find the remains of the bunkers in Brisbane outside the Fortitude Valley swimming pool. Apparently there is tunnels that run underneath Brisbane from World War II but no one can confirm or deny that.

There was also one I used to walk past when I lived in Dutton Park pretty much every day. It’s in the park across the road from the train station if you want to go looking for it. Most of them have been turned into open air gazebos by now of course.

Most of the ones in the Brisbane CBD have been removed but the MacArthur Chambers still remains. This was Elizabeth Street.


What was the thing they found when digging the Northern Busway? War Room?

If Japan had actually through their attacks in WWII, they’d have totally established Darwin as a northern base - there was nothing left to stop them. One can assume though that the Bomb would have seen control handed back to Australia even if they’d managed to start any serious land-grab of our soil.


There was nothing much left to stop them once Singapore fell. That was a case of ineptitude in design as most of the fortifications in Singapore face the way of Indonesia and not Japan. They were totally blindsided and didn’t see it coming.

The only thing that stopped them directly in Australia is the chain of command in Australia telling Churchill and Truman to shove their orders where the sun didn’t shine and coming home to defend the line. Neither Truman or Churchill was incredibly impressed about that and that’s on the record of things you can dig through at the State Library in the archives that have been declassified. A good book on that matter would also bring your awareness to the case.

With a lot of assistance from Papua New Guinea Highlanders we turned the front at New Guinea ourselves as both Papua New Guinea militia and Australian soldiers. If you saw a New Guinea highland chief today you’d see why they are still some of the most fearsome soldiers you could get on your home front. These were real men fit and strong and aware of the conditions.

I was not paying enough attention to the Brisbane Busway roll out other than that it happened. A situation room would not surprise me. It’s said that there are all kinds of secret tunnels that run underneath Brisbane but the government denies it all and we are not likely to be clear on that matter any time soon.

The bomb did help, the war was already over in Europe but the Japanese emperor would not yield. Unfortunately a tragic set of events happened and along with mass confusion in the Japanese public about where the bombs would be dropped it led to a whole lot of innocent people losing their lives and its perhaps the strongest reason why one hasn’t been dropped in anger since.

If Japan had taken a foothold in Australia they may well have gotten as far as Darwin, there’s not much telling exactly what would happen but I used to talk to a RAAF pilot on another forum. He seems to assume the same as what I’ve already raised. A large land mass with all sorts of terrain issues and expansive sea borders makes it foreseeable that it would be difficult to get much further beyond that point once you got here.


Trump is necessary for the USA. Why? Because he has forced the left to face up to their hypocrisy, the right to their bigotry, and the press and government to their dishonesty. Whether they will actually do so is another matter. Trump will test Americans and their choices will decide their fate. They will not find their way out of this with the same thinking that has lead up to it.


That’s an interesting perspective and I can’t say its worth ignoring it. This election will have Americans rethinking a lot of things just what exactly Trump does or whether he even lasts the full 4 year term we’re yet to find out yet. Since none of it really directly affects any of us except the refugee thing. I like surprises and I’m willing to find out.


Read these and tell me theres nothing to worry about…

IN the meantime, our lily livered pansy government is cosying up to the trump administration… amd people like Bernardi (Trump supporter) and Hanson (racist) think its all good. Beware. They said Hitler wasnt an issue, either…


The whole Muslim thing is scary and chaotic. He fired his acting attorney general for questioning whether it was legal or not.


Far extreme - WWIII would certainly concern us, because by all means we may be fighting on USA’s side!

Less extreme - Trump’s actions are going to affect international trade, currency markets, may potentially push up cost of Apple products…

Philosophical - Back to my first post… I can’t understand how poeple “let” Hitler happen… We can’t treat this as poorly as our Prime Minster is currently doing… There’s too much at stake as human beings.


Trump may well push up the value of the Australian dollar which is seen as a safe investment in uncertain times which can only be good for Apple prices in Australia.

Philosophically I’m poles apart from what Trump is. I’m just not jumping on the alarmist bandwagon until we get there. One thing to ban Muslims the next thing is if he actually tries to start deporting people then I’ll think he’s more like Pol Pot, just as dangerous but in a slightly different way.

Pol Pot assassinated anyone who wore glasses as that was seen as a sign of intelligence. I strenuously believe we will never see anything on the scale of World War II again however.


Post deleted because I can see what a waste of time it would be to persist with the argument.


This just seems totally appropriate…




And people wonder why some of us think the sky is falling…

This isn’t some 2bit 3rd World Country (no offense to people in 2bit 3rd World Countries)… It’s supposedly the most powerful man in the world…


I’m going to call bull on a lot of this.

Clinton was picking more fights with Russia and I would say there was far more risk of a war with Russia with her at the helm than him. As much as I don’t like Trump, people are exaggerating to a large degree.

That aside, this article pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter.

The US will probably have a rocky ride, they’ll get some good things out of it (the 2 for 1 legislation we could do with) and some bad stuff, but the world won’t end and the US voters might actually care enough next time to vote.


Trump is disgusting beyond belief. People want to call Clinton a liar, yet they voted Trump in to “drain the swamp” that he has repopulated with… guess what? The same political insiders Trump and co moaned about, because he has no clue how to run things. I can’t stand Turnbull, but am troubled by the fact that Trump apparently couldn’t have a civilised conversation with him, and still felt the petulant need to tweet about it. Disrespectful and unnecessary. He has no clue and it worries me if that is how he will treat allies, then how the hell is he going to be diplomatic towards those who are not allies.

He’s the biggest backflipping hypocrite there is and his attitude to women is appalling. The travel ban thing is hopeless. Conveniently places where he does business, the terrorists actually come from aren’t even on the list. If he wanted to ban something try doing something about guns. The threat of guns in the US is so much greater than terrorism.


Sorry to say, but if this is the alternative, Trump is going to get a whole lot more appealing for the people there. The rioting, violence and mayhem isn’t doing them any favours, if not anything, it will push those to support Trump more heavily and those in the middle are more likely to swing in his favour.