The Rise of Trump


of course that’s a trick out of the liberal playbook (notice the small l) It’s not something a realist even thinks about.


Hi. I’m a U.S. citizen and a JHS/HS civics teacher. I’ve enjoyed this discussion by (mostly? All?) non-citizens that show what I’ve told many of my fellow American citizens for years: you look like buffoons not knowing as much about some other country’s political system as everyone else knows about ours. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of you are dual citizens, or like me, someone with multiple residencies, which puts us in a different position than most of our fellow USians.

The Constitution is very hard to change, but due to Judicial Review, it’s not hard “to reinterpret.” It happens all the time, which is why there is always a fight to stack the court with ideologues. However, this fails about half the time, because the U.S. judiciary is an independent judiciary. Much is made of the fact that they are, at first, political appointees (nominated by POTUS, confirmed by Senate majority), but what people often miss is the records of justices after they join the judiciary. Justices serve for a term of “good behavior,” or, you know, forever. They cannot have salary reduced, they can only be impeached under extreme circumstances, they cannot really be punished. Presidents often find, as Bush did with Roberts, that once a justice realises that independence and power, trying to control their judicial appointees is a crapshoot for any sitting President. That’s a feature, not a flaw.

If massive change comes to the U.S. system, it will not be because Trump and company successfully use the levers of government to create intra-constitutional changes leading to what is known as an illiberal democracy (where people really did vote the dictator in, and the dictator uses democratic processes to stifle civil liberties, usually due to fear of the other, either internal strife or external enemies), but rather by out-right extra-constitutional methods supported by enough of the populous to keep various checks and balances of the other co-equal branches of government from doing their jobs.

tl;dr Trump becomes a fascist dictator, or more likely a figurehead to the likes of Bannon and Miller, not by changing the Constitution, but by setting it on fire while no one cares.


Steve Bannon bothers the hell outta me. I’m so glad I am not American, and after what happened to Mem Fox at LAX, I dont even want to go over to visit my friends anymore.


Well, not quite 4 months into Trump’s reign, and Australia has officially been warned of possible nuclear attack by North Korea due to our ties with Trump’s America…

I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure this is a first for our country.


Two man children with nuclear weapons. Siiiigh. Don’t blame me, I voted for Bernie, and then I voted for Hillary. :confused:


Isn’t it just great! Well done petulant man child Trump. I hate Turnbull, but at least he’s intelligent (whether or not I agree with him), so hopefully intelligent enough not to do anything stupid. Thank god its not Abbott dealing with the US.


Somehow I’m just not sure that even Turnbull will put enough distance between us and Trump…


I agree I don’t think he has enough guts to do it - but he’s better than Abbott who would be licking Trump’s feet (oh wait he still is, but at least not in a position of leadership).


He might be intelligent, but he’s still a conservative warmongering ratbag. There is almost no difference between Turnbull and Abbott.

He’s not going to put any distance between us and the USA, anything they do, we’ll be one step behind, leading us right into world war 3.


I posted this on 28th January. My opinion hasnt changed, and everything thats happened since then continues to support it.

You don’t give nuclear weapons to narcissists.

TWO narcissists with nukes? God help us all. Lets hope someone can get them down off their soapboxes long enough to explain to them that nobody wins in a nuclear war.

As far as Turnbull is concerned, it doesnt matter. Even if it was Shorten, it would not matter. We have US bases here, theres a bunch of marines doing their stuff up round Darwin (war games or something) and there are US bases in the Phillipines and also Japan, and never mind South Korea. If Kim decides to let loose, it wont bloody matter. We will be hit, either directly or indirectly.

Let hope they back down.


The ‘under development’ North Korean nukes won’t reach most Australian capitol cities (they almost get to Brisbane but not quite), the exception is Darwin… so top tip…

If war breaks out don’t go to Darwin :worried:


I was living in Darwin as a primary school student during the first Gulf War… Saddam was rumoured to have bombs capable of reaching Darwin… Was not a fun time…

IF things go nuclear… the main hope is that Russia and China don’t back N Korea - or simply jump in because they can… The second hope, is that N Korea doesn’t actually have a big enough stockpile to worry about secondary targets like Australia. The third hope is that movies like “The Beach” are not in fact predictions of the future…


The point that I was trying to make was that it wont matter a bit exactly where the bombs land (if they land… they dont need to) If we arent in Darwin we will still get radiation sickness. There are no winners in that kind of war. Even if no bombs drop on Australia, we will still get radiation from teh fallout. Has everyone so soon forgotten the lessons of Chernobyl? And that wasnt even a bomb, which will go off in the atmosphere.

Back in the 80s, a movie was made called “The Day After”. Its really disturbing and its something I think everyone should see at least once. Its on youtube, 2 hours of horror.


I know that movie well, @kyte! I found a copy just a few years ago, having originally seen it as a kid in the 80’s… It was made specifically to try “wake up” Cold-war leaders to the fact that no one wins in these events - with some text at the end saying as such… (And I think I only watched it originally because it starred the guy from the Police Academy movies!)

Of course, even “better” was the BBC’s 1965 doco-style production, “The War Game”, that was banned before it was aired, because “the effect of the film has been judged by the BBC to be too horrifying for the medium of broadcasting”. This however didn’t stop my Social Science teacher showing it to us in grade 10… (It was released on vidoe in '85.)

The 1959 Hollywood movie “On The Beach” proposed that a global nuclear war left everywhere uninhabitable except for Australia… however eventually even Aussie land was exposed, and - everyone on the planet died.

The movie was re-made about 17 years ago here in Australia, with the same premise, for cable tv.

The thing is, no one really knows what the outcome will be from a global nuclear war. Certainly, if you’re in a blast zone, it’s goodnight, and if you’re not in the blast zone, but within X km’s, then it’s either a really agonising but quick goodnight, OR a long long horrible goodnight, depending on X’s value. And, if you’re outside that area, depending which way the wind is blowing - you may also be affected. But… outside of those areas, there’s nothing to say that “On The Beach” will come true. The areas around Hiroshima and Nagasaki to my knowledge did not directly suffer any radiation issues.

(Chernobyl, Fukushima, 3 Mile Island etc - were nuclear power stations that experienced meltdowns, and and will be uninhabitable for thousands of years. However, a nuclear bomb uses much less nuclear material, and ultimately - as seen in Japan’s 2 bombed cities - life in fact went back “to normal” within a few decades, with no lasting increases in radiation/illnesses.)

Nuclear Winter however may affect some parts, or perhaps even the entire globe. This phenomenon is only a hypothesis at this point, but predicts drops of temperature as the sun is blocked by fallout etc, and will cause the ruination of crops etc. The duration of a Nuclear Winter again is an unknown, especially without having actual data on how many nukes may be involved or their power etc. But even a 6 month period would see millions die from starvation. My pantry would only see my family survive maybe a month at best!

I’m not, fyi, PRO nukes! I’d rather no one had them. I don’t buy into the “well X has them so we have to have them to keep X in check!” mentality. But once you have them, I can see it being hard to give them up… :frowning:

There are plenty of horrific images of nuclear destruction… but the shadows of Hiroshima should be enough.

All that was left of this person, was their shadow, burned onto these stairs when the bomb hit. There were several such examples documented by the US Army when they went in after the bombs were dropped. (Should I say… probably also Aussie troops, as the US sent a lot of our guys in first… I wonder why… No protection used whatsoever…)

** Please DO NOT google this topic. A shadow of a former human being is one thing to be etched into your mind. The other images that Google will show you from a search on this subject are MUCH WORSE. Images you cannot unsee. **

The ABC ran a few stories from Hiroshima’s survivors during the 70th anniversary year on their website. One particular story of a girl who survived was just…


Please don’t think I admire the guy at all because I can’t stand him - especially how as I expected he sold his soul to appease the right wing of the liberal party.


I went to the Hiroshima atomic bomb memorial museum. They have very accurate depictions of what happened to people, and specifically children. They have a display with very accurate portrayals of the bodies of the children dressed in actual found sailor uniforms and gakuran. I threw up. It’s apparently very common. Nagasaki has one too, but although I’ve been to Nagasaki, I thought once was enough for a lifetime. The Hiroshima museum is really very even-handed though. It explains precisely what legitimate military targets were in located in Hiroshima and points out the second largest number of dead by nationality was American soldiers and first responders, because the full effects of radiation wasn’t known. Many members of the American armed services medical corps sent in to help the wounded became sick or died themselves.


The last few posts here are somewhat depressing, and scary. :confused:

Leaving this here to try and lighten the mood for others reading along!


Of course… Tom Lehrer also penned these wonderful ditties… :open_mouth:

and this…


Richard Wolffe in The Guardian, after Trump told Chinese President Xi that the US had launched 59 missiles heading to Iraq, and had said that “We are sending an armada, very powerful” towards North Korea, and that Clinton and Obama had been outplayed by “this gentleman”:
“. . . at least [George Bush] knew which country he was invading, and which direction his ships were sailing. He knew the difference between Saddam Hussein and King Hussein.”


Ronald Reagan at least moved into politics… I know jokes are made about him becoming President, but it’s not as if he went from the talkies to the oval office.

I’d not heard of Tom Lehrer before - but looks like he knew his stuff!