Have apple negelcted Mac os?

I don’t think Mac OS is neglected out of apathy but a more pragmatic approach to spending resources on development.

iOS related products sell in far greater numbers than Mac OS products and probably receive the lions share of dev time. I don’t really have an issue with that.

The iOS hardware products are still new and evolving between different ux types and form factors which requires software to keep up with it. The Mac as a computer is, I think, at almost the apogee of it’s current form. The hardware hasn’t changed in any meaningful way in a big number of years so software isn’t really required to change that way either. We all still interact with our Macs the same way we did in 2000 just about.

I think Mac OS is likely to sit on its current course of small iterative improvement until something about the hardware interaction changes drastically.

The lack of ethernet you mention isn’t really a Mac OS issue. More a hardware design choice, I suppose. Consumers don’t even know what open source is, so I can’t imagine it being very high up Apple’s priority list. Especially as they’re trying to shift apps into the sandboxed land of the App Store where I can’t imagine knowing much about the open source parts of the OS will matter.

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You make some interesting observations - But mac os X and the hardware is at the apogee ?

NOOOOOO !

Imagine an apple supported software service like Mac ports? Suddenly out of the box you could have the equivalent of the apt-get command or the Ubuntu software center app on the mac that will install all that amazing universe of linux development apps - including apache nginx mysql etc etc etc all at the click of an install button! Yes I can get this to work on a mac it’s actually rather involved to do this, Why I ask? Because apple have not been behind the 8 ball on this, despite lip service to support open source (and making use of it when it suits them I might add!)

From a hardware angle just Imagine a mac book pro with 10 gig ethernet (or even dual ethernet!) and a blue ray drive 15 inch with retina display! (oh yes and an HD and Ram you can up date yourself!) I’d be up for that!

On the hardware points you make. They’re hardly new features, more like evolutions of existing technology. They wouldn’t require any great change to the OS to support. I would almost imagine they’re heading to that point anyway. Except for the useless dual ethernet and blu-ray drive.

I’m suggesting that Mac OS hasn’t adopted radical new features because the platform hasn’t radically changed in the last 14 years (or there about. I’m only in the Apple camp since 2008). We still interact with a mouse pointer. Still type with the same keyboard. Screens still fold shut. Nothing added recently has required a large change to Mac OS.

Apple have added nice new features here and there to aid cross platform use with iOS but they’ve not really changed up the game either.

Re the Macports thing. I think that that’s kinda neither here nor there. While devs are clearly important to OS X and Apple continuing to expand and evolve implementing something like that would likely take a lot to build reliably and return almost zero benefit for 98%of Mac users. Plus, those who need that kinda of functionality can do it already. I think Apple has a very well established track record of not caring about these kind of features and I can’t really demonstrate it hurting them in any way.

Exactly! They are basic things that competitors have and that the apple community does not - this was in reply to the apogee comment - there is lots of just basic stuff we need !

apogee - the highest point in the development of a product? No where even near dude!

With regards the dismissal of the Macports - always remember what Steve said!

“The customer doesn’t know what they want”

They’re not Mac OS deficiencies, though. That’s what the topic is about, right?

Apogee with respect to the evolution of the way we interact with full fledged computers.

I’m a nerd and I can’t even think of a reason to use Macports… Let alone all the normals buying macs!

Well actually in the case of blue ray - there is no mac supported drivers you have to go 3 rd party - and we still don’t have 10 gig ethernet on our mac book pro’s out of the box - In my mind that is a deficiency - the original topic was Have apple neglected Mac os? I think the above proves they have neglected it!

Apache - nginx mysql ruby - all publicly available web browsers LibreOffice - Virtual box , wine that’s just off the top of my head - all could be wrapped up in a beautiful little GUI you click one button and pow it’s installed!

The more I look at it the more I think Mac os needs a huge tune up - it could learn so much from linux.

I’ve gotta disagree here Steve. I work at a systems integrator, we install networking gear for companies and institutions at all ends of the spectrum. While the push in the Data Centre is for 10gig ethernet, client side is all moving to wireless. It’s highly unlikely that 10gig ethernet will ever be common at the access layer because general users aren’t using 1gig connections to their full potential. The cost of 10gig at the access layer doesn’t match up to the demand…and Apple would be crazy to introduce 10gig ports built into a machine when they could just release a thunderbolt adapter that enabled that later.

So who does ship a 10gig ethernet adapter as standard on a laptop or desktop “out of the box”?

No one.

Why? Because users of that class of device don’t need 10gig ethernet and no company is going to invest in 10gig ethernet at the access layer.

I’ve also got to ask: what do you need 10gig ethernet for that makes it such a deal breaker?

The Pro in MacBook Pro is still relevant because, performance wise, it kicks the arse of any other laptop out there…which is where it really matters, to me at least.

My day to day machine is a retina MBP and it’s not that hard to carry an ethernet adapter for the times when I do need a wired connection.

Yes, the core of iOS is based on OS X. But I think Benny was using OS X to describe the desktop platform specifically.

As to the original question, I don’t think Apple have neglected OS X. I will concede that they’ve prioritised iOS over OS X.

Not only are iOS devices a bigger income generator than OS X devices, they’re also where Apple is facing the most competition.

Benny’s right, it would be silly to pour resources into OS X when their man hours can make a bigger impact working on iOS.

That said, Mavericks is better than Mountain Lion. It’s by far the best version of OS X I’ve ever used. Is it a mind blowing step up from Mountain Lion? No. But it is an evolutionary step in the right direction.

It also didn’t need to be mind blowing in the same way that iOS 7 did because, as I said, Apple aren’t feeling pressure from the competition in the desktop OS space the way they are in the mobile OS space.

The fact that the version of OS X that I use today is meaningfully better than the version I had 1, 2 or 3 years ago suggests to me that they’re not neglecting it. They’re just being smart about where they’re spending their money.

It kinda sounds to me like you’ve already got the OS that you want, it’s just not from Apple :wink:

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Well - I guess we just got to disagree on that one - I work in the
Graphics vid editing photographics environment and I can you if they made the sort of machine (imagine a dual or triple ssd set up running in raid 0 config? say in a 19 inch laptop format … It would scream!) people would buy it! No one is making that sort of machine you have to build it your self - thats the problem!

The problem I have is I have 2 os - both are great but none is insanely great! :smile:

Imagining a 19" laptop just makes my back hurt, regardless of how awesomely spec’d it is :stuck_out_tongue:

What you’ve described is a super niche product that would likely only ever be used on a desk because of the weight. The Mac Pro is already a niche product that, with the right thunderbolt 2 peripherals, could meet what you’re asking for. Or as you said, you can build a rig that meets those requirements yourself.

You say that people would buy it, but how many people would buy it? If that number was big enough to warrant the investment on Apple’s (or anyone elses) part, then you’d see it happen.

If you ask me, the rMBP (and the MBP before it) got the power to portability ratio pretty spot on. If you really need that grunt, you’re going to be sitting at a desk somewhere…because anything that big and powerful is going to generate enough heat to cook your thighs.

My point still stands. General users do not need 10gig day to day so 10gig at the access layer isn’t going to become common place enough to warrant having it built in on any laptop. It’s boils down to supply and demand, and there simply isn’t the demand for what you’re asking for. As I said, if there was, it would be here right now.

And none of that has a single thing to do with OS X :stuck_out_tongue:

Well! lets see what happens after wwdc !

and to paraphrase an old chestnut - build it and they will buy the thing, (especially if it’s the fastest graphics laptop you can buy)

And your wrong! :smile: It has a lot to do with Mac os X! LOL

I think Apple have dropped the ball considerably on OSX over the last few years and are only now bending over to pick it up.

I used Macs during my high school years (9.0-10.2) and while they were nice enough to use, the OS wasn’t aesthetically pleasing (Though, still more than XP!) until the big Leopard overhaul.

Comparatively, I think Snow Leopard has got to be the best release out of the box. Lion massively screwed up memory management and Mountain Lion didn’t improve upon that much. While both looked absolutely incredible aesthetics wise, under the hood left something to be desired.

Mavericks on the other hand, has been a big leap forward for performance - I just hope it hasn’t been too much so 2008/2009 models have been left behind - my 2010 Macbook Pro still feels like it strains a bit with 4gb RAM at times if I don’t perform semi-regular maintenance on it.

Heck, it feels like my wifes 2011 MBP requires a Disk Utility repair every six months because something goes wrong. I’ve told her though that if it does it again (Every time I’ve formatted it, every time I’ve only restored the most essential files) that I’ll just put in a new hard drive out of sheer frustration.

And as I’ve already said, the number of people who will buy it needs to justify the engineering effort. If it did, we’d already have it. If it ever does, we will have it. That’s how it works.

How? At most what you’ve described speeds up network access and increases throughput. You could run Mavericks on that hardware and see speed benefits purely by adding drivers.

So if Apple came out and released a patch that contained drivers for 10gig ethernet adapters MacPorts, would that make Mavericks your perfect OS? It currently supports SSD raid out of the box and hell, you could have dual NICs on a rMBP by adding two thunderbolt or USB3 adapters.

The biggest downside for Mavericks on older machines is that the OS is optimised for SSDs. I had the same issue with my 2010 MBP, upping the RAM made no difference but swapping the 5400rpm HDD out for an SSD made a world of difference!

That just sounds like a sick hard drive mate, you can hardly blame that on the OS :stuck_out_tongue:

So if the original topic was about OS X. Complaints about Mac hardware are a separate topic. :wink:

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Bok that depends if you have a holistic approach to what Mac os X is - and for me it is not just the software, it is also the hardware and the variety that it supports and how it performs, the user experiance ease of use etc… it is the whole package that is important.

One final thought - I’ve been using Mac os X since the original public beta - ( I still have the cd ! ) and for quite a while when you updated Mac os X your machine would perform faster! Unfortunately I’ve found Mavericks‎ put a huge performance hit on a 2 and a half year old mac! It’s still a good release but I was very disappointed with that performance hit.

For a while there (Lion and Mountain Lion) I did feel like OS X was being overlooked. It is a fairly mature OS though, and I think Apple redeemed themselves a bit with Mavericks. Sure, it took a couple of point releases to get it to stabilise, but what they did under the hood with power management is remarkable.

As mentioned above, the rumour has it that it’s OS X’s year this year but I am hoping it has some more under the hood advancements and not just an iOS inspired skin.

You’re talking about the Mac though. The Mac is the entire experience, both hardware and software. The OS part of Mac OS is defined as the operating system, but is usually expanded to include bundled software.

You can’t evaluate the OS without taking into consideration all the other things that are needed to make up a computer (hardware, hardware support - user interface etc). A well made os needs to function with and include all of the above and more … how the os interacts with and performs with all those aspects also needs to be considered as part of a realistic evaluation.

An os is something that we as humans react and work with - not something that is just a bit of code - that’s one of the things that makes apple different - it’s that holistic approach to the whole package, the way the hardware and the os meld are designed and incorporated and are considered presented and function.

I feel like the Mac OS is a bit neglected. It use to be such a big thing and iLife was a huge deal. I would love to see some great new ilife features.

I really am excited for WWDC to see this new rumoured 10.10.

I don’t think so. The core changes in Mavericks and streamlining a heap of stuff paving OSX for future major changes.

I’m looking forward to a new design in 10.10, but I’m not at all looking forward to the inevitable grumbling about it.

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