Climate Change, and the case of the recalcitrant Liberals/Nationals

Someone have a cold wet fish I could possibly use to smack Scott Morrison and [he who wont be named of the Nationals] over the head with?

I want to buy an electric car, but can’t, because Europe is holding onto all of theirs to get tax credits, leaving us with about 3 models, all $60k plus.

The world is heating up, and people bitch and moan because Australia contributes so little to the overall greenhouse gas figures, that - “Why should we care?”. How about leading by example?


Politics? Not here please.

Climate change discussion has been politicised… but Climate Change itself is not, it’s scientific fact.

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This is not a thread I expected to see here, although I recall on the old site there was a non-Apple Lounge sub-forum.

We went from leading the world on climate change action with a carbon tax that was actually working to trailing the world. The last 8 years of LNP govnemrent has been hopeless on pretty much every front.

In relation to electric cars, if you actually want to make an environmental difference, buy a hybrid. At the moment, unless you’re running a electric car fully off renewably generated electricity, a Hybrid is more environmentally friendly than an electric car.


Everything humans do is politics. Including anything related to a computer company named after a fruit.

Politics is just another way of saying “the way humans make decisions in interacting with other humans.” The whole concept of “politicising” something is nonsense. Anything human is by definition political.

…I’m a political scientist and a civics teacher (though I’m currently working in IT and comms, since 2019), so I mean… In fairness, of course that is how I see the world.

Climate change is real, and it is due to political decisions in the past and political decisions presently and will continue unless there are different political decisions made in very short order.

As for COALition, well, they’ve certainly made a lot of political decisions, yessiree.


The Garage
Anything else that doesn’t fit into any other category. Jump on your soapbox and get it off your chest.

Pretty sure I chose the right section to post this under… I know it’s been a year or so since I was active here, but - surely people still post the odd non-Apple drivel here? Something to rant about?


I’m hoping to be in the market for a new (old) car in the next 12-24 months, but only looking at sub$20k. So, that definitely rules out full electric cars, as even second hand, from what I’ve seen they start around $50k.

Hadn’t thought about hybrids - guess I’d better do some research into them.

We are in Geelong, so - big battery coming soon (after it finishes burning…), but not sure how fast Victoria is really moving toward renewables… Don’t have home solar cos we’re renting, but part of the next 12-24 months is buying a new house…

My parents have a 2020 Corolla Hybrid hatch - it’s fantastic! Only problem is that with the covid price bubble + current supply issues + huge demand for Toyota Hybrids, second hand models are ridiculously expensive. It gets about 4.2 Litres per 100kms and 1000+ kms out of tank. Fuel consumption actually gets better in traffic, which is the opposite to normal petrol engines.

My research suggests that Victoria is actually the worst state for emissions from electricity.

This is a comparison of the the C02 emitted per Km between a Tesla Model 3 (charged with Victoria’s average energy mix) vs a Hybrid Corolla.

211 grams of CO2 per km vs 85 grams of CO2 per km.

You can get a 5 year old Corolla Hybrid for just under $20,000 - however this should drop a fair bit when a) the covid price bubble ends, b) the chip shortage ends and c) when Toyota improves supplies of Hybrids. Prices are just INSANE at the moment, dealerships are pricing 2019 and 2020 models of my parents car for MORE than my parents paid for it brand new in May 2020.

When we move to better mixes of clean power, Electric cars will obviously become the better environmental source. But at the moment imho Hybrids are a fantastic ‘in between’ step.

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People rarely post anything here anymore. I’ve started a few threads and it’s very noticeable because the place is so dead.

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I had noticed… Kinda sad, forums dying all over the place.

Yeah because politics these days is either you can do no wrong or you are evil incarnate. No in between.
So injecting politics pretty well kills forums.

Forums are dying because forums are an outdated technology compared to the ubiquity of modern social media, both public and private. The heydey of forums were in the mid-00s. I’m a mod on a forum that launched in December 2000 and at its peak in 2003 there were literally posts every second, hundreds of thousands of users (of which I’m member number 615, which is even lower than you would think, because a lot of single and double digit accounts were test/dummy accounts). Now we’re lucky to see a post every day or every couple of days. AppleTalk (this one) launched when forums were already dying as a platform.

Again, there is nothing that isn’t political. You can’t inject politics into that which involves more than one human, because put two humans together and interactions are by definition political. I tell my students when they go to the lunchroom and run a calculus about where to sit and by whom (or away from whom), that’s politics. Blaming the fall of forums on “injecting politics” is absolutely silly and not supported by evidence.

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I have looked at getting an older car and having it converted to electric.

There are people/places which will do the conversion, though I am not sure if the full cost,

I think that would make sense for a classic car, but for practicality’s sake you don’t end up with a great range and it’s pretty expensive - $15,000 to $30,000 to do a conversion according to here:

Doesn’t Victoria have a per km charge for electric vehicles now?
Yep looks like 2.5c/km for full electric, 2c/km for plug-in hybrids.
Traditional hybrid and mild hybrid are exempt.


Give me user forums over Facebook any day (although not the forum software used on AppleTalk). I closed my FB account for good 6 months ago. I actually went to the trouble of unfriending everyone, deleting every post I’d ever made, unliking every page and removing myself from every group. So even if I wanted to get back on, it would be a pain to send a bunch of friend requests.

I did much the same thing, several times. There used to be an app (Exfoliate) on android that would go through and delete your stuff based on criteria you set… sadly, facebook made it impossible to work so its no longer available or supported. I wish there was an easy way to do it because I need to go through and do it again, too.

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The hard part about climate change is that its a luxury for many, despite being a mandatory part of saving the planet. You can argue that the libs are useless, but the recent example of labor in victoria charging an electric tax is everything that is wrong with politicians.

I think there are two challenges right now:

  1. Lack of low cost electric alternatives. In the EU, cars have to meet emission guidelines. If they don’t, they get heavy fines so they can help meet this average CO2 rating per car by selling electric cars. This has meant that electric cars are subsidised to the tune of 10-15000 euro because one electric car can be 10+ petrol cars under the cap.
  2. Lack of cost effective alternatives. I think the biggest issue with the carbon tax when it was introduced it that it had a short sighted view. I.e. reduce consumption. People want to reduce consumption but its hard to do it cost effectively, so generally they want every else to do it, not them. This is prevalent even with the likes of Greta. She wants business to change, but where is she targeting the youth to change, the youth to reduce their consumption and wastage? The youth of today are growing up far more wasteful than any previous generations but they want the latest iphones, latest xyz. Its easy to point the finger at someone else change when its not you having to be the one suffering. I.e. companies need to reduce consumption, the government, rich people etc. To me, the billions raised by the carbon tax should have been invested in renewal research to improve the efficiently of renewable alternatives and create Intellectual Property that Australia owns. Its hard to have a labour force when our labour is too expensive, but we can if it’s high out solar alternatives etc.

Right now, we’ve tried to do what we can. We walk/ride to school, we use electric scooters for short trips to the store that only require a shopping bag, but we have a long road ahead of us. There are a lot of things that need to change to get to the right place, both from a legislative and consumer perspective, and its not just the government to blame, the amount of consumer wastage is insane.


Australia needs to bite the bullet and legalize quadricycles for local roads use; things like the Renault Twizzy and Citroen Ami are perfect for short commutes to a local railway station or bus interchange.

And whilst Joe Everyman might not be able to afford a $60,000 entry level electric car he can afford a ticket on an electric bus or electric train.

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